Monday, May 01, 2000

A History of Klein Road Bikes


Pay no attention to the post date - just a book-keeping trick; I keep this page updated frequently.

This is the cover of the 1996 cataloge as distributed in Germany. NOTHING ELSE EVEN COMES CLOSE

If you're looking for tech manuals, try here:








This ad ran for several years in bike racing magazines. I always thought it was clever but what you notice is that Klein needed to convince buyers that aluminum frames could be strong (since their primary competition was steel) - now aluminum frame manufacturers need to convince buyers that aluminum frames can be comfortable and designed to manage fatigue.

I've really only had three road bikes since I got serious about riding in 1984 (Greg Lemond/LA Olympics era). The first was my Ciöcc, purchased as a complete bike in 1985 (died of a broken head tube in 1993), the second was my Eddy Merckx, purchased as a bare frame in 1993 and built up with Ciöcc parts (still going strong but components have all been replaced multiple times), and the third is my Klein, another bare frame built up with Dura Ace parts one bit at a time, completed 2003. I think I wanted a Klein the first time I ever saw one. The first time I remember thinking that was on RAGBRAI XVI, in 1988. I had my Ciöcc, which was de regeur at the time, and another guy on the ride said he really liked it and he had a Klein and I told him I really liked his bike. I told him though that he should have gotten the model with internal cable runs and he said that was a big increase in price. Fifteen years later I'd finally have my Klein with internal cables. Klein production moved from San Martin, CA to Chehalis, WA in 1980 for the less expensive real estate. Trek bought Klein in 1995, but Klein production remained in Chelais through February 2002. Here's a blurb in the Seattle Post-Intellegencer about the loss of jobs. There was a little lag before they got it going again at the Trek facility in Waterloo so there weren't many 2002 Kleins built in Wisconsin. Waterloo bikes were the first ones to have the carbon fiber seat stays (which I still think is a gimmick).


Here's an article about Gary and the sale to Trek and getting out of the business.

Here are some photos I found of Gary himself:


From the 1990 Catalogue. Mountain bikes were in their heyday.


From the 1991 Catalogue


And these last two from the 1993 catalogue.

This is nothing like a real blueprint, but I guess the marketing department thought this made Kleins look more like an engineered product.

So here are the road models I've been able to identify, and a little info on each. Klein (full custom) Klein Team Super Light Klein Stage Klein Tour Klein Team Super Klein Criterium Klein Advantage Klein Performance Klein Quantum Klein Kirsten Klein Quantum Pro Criterium Klein Quantum Pro Road Klein Quantum II Road Klein Aeolus Tri-athlete Road Klein Quantum Pro Klein Quantum Race Klein Q-Pro Klein Q-Pro Carbon Klein Q-Carbon Compact Klein Rêve Most of the info and photos I have here were just copied from various places on the web. If you have any information that would make this a more complete page I'd love to have it - that goes for any photo you have showing something different (or better) than is already here. For instance I'd like to have a definitive list of which bikes had pressed in bottom brackets. I've also got a very small database of serial numbers so it would be nice to expand that if any readers can send in the number, model, and year of their Klein.
From Jim Langley's Site: 1975 USA Gary Klein displays his welded and heat-treated aluminum frames at the International Bike show. Alan (Italy) and Vitus (France) were producing their lugged aluminum frames around the same time. Cannondale launch their “Aluminum for the Masses” in 1983. If you have the proprietary 1-1/16" headset and want to swap out the bearings to use a standard 1-1/8" steer tube fork, here's Klein's suggestion Basically, they tell you to go to Reset Racing, a German company that offers refit kits... I've heard only good things, but only a few total. Reset also has a good explanation of the difference between MC-1, MC-2, MC-3, and MC-3.1 in their FAQ. So far I've had zero problems with my MC-3 stem or my Klein's internal headset, but if I ever do, and the rest of my frame is still up to it, I'd have no problems going with a kit from Reset. They also have a kit to replace the pressed in bottom bracket if you have one of those. I'd really love to hear more stories if you've used Reset for anything. KleinBikes.com has removed their HISTORY document so I guess it's all up to me now. I do have some old tech manuals as PDFs - just drop me an e-mail if you need one. 1980 Custom frames 1981 Custom frames, line consisted of: Team Super Light Road Team Super Heavy Duty Road Stage Road Stage Tour Road 1986 Custom Frames: Team Super Road Criterium Stage Advantage 1986 Production Frames: Performance Road Quantum Road Kirsten (woman's geometry) 1992 Klein started using oversize seat tube with 31.6mm seat post clamp; slightly larger frame tubes to further reduce weight 1994 Quantum Pro Criterium Gradient 9320 frame tubing, Aeros composite fork Micro dropouts, Mission Control 2 bar/stem combo, gradient chain stays. 1995 Quantum Pro Road Quantum II Road Quantum Road Aeolus Tri-athlete Road 1997 Quantum Race Road – New revision to Quantum Series; 1st year offered as assembled bike Stage Road – New entry level sport/performance design 1999 Mission Control 3 Road stem and clamp; 2001 was the last year of the simple names and proprietary steerer tube size. Only the Quantum Pro gets the superbe Aeros fork. 2001 Klein Quantum 105 2001 Klein Quantum Race Ultegra 2001 Klein Quantum Pro Dura Ace For 2002, Klein adopts the standard 1-1/8" steerer, and starts using ZR9000 aluminum. The Q-Pro model gets carbon seatstays, but the Quantum line still has an aluminum rear end. 2002 Klein Quantum Compact geometry 105 2002 Klein Quantum TT Flat handlebar compact geometry 105 2002 Klein Quantum Race Compact geometry Ultegra 2002 Klein Q-Pro Carbon Standard geometry Dura Ace with carbon rear end For 2003, Trek changes "Quantum" to "Q" and comes up with Team, Race, and Pro designations for component packages. The carbon fiber wishbone seat stays are added to all road frames. The Pro versions get the famous Aeros fork but the compact versions get a different carbon fork. 2003 Klein Q-Carbon Compact geometry Tiagra 2003 Klein Q-Carbon Race Compact geometry 105 2003 Klein Q-Carbon Team Compact geometry Ultegra 2003 Klein Q-Pro Carbon Standard geometry Ultegra 2003 Klein Q-Pro Carbon Team Standard geometry Dura Ace In 2004 we have the standard geometry Q-Pro and the compact geometry Aura. 2004 Klein Q-Pro (V for 105, XV for Ultegra, and XX for Dura Ace) 2004 Klein Aura (V for Tiagra/105, X for 105/Ultegra, and XV for full Ultegra) In 2005 the Aura is replaced by the Rêve, which has a shock dampener in the wishbone seatstay. 2005 Klein Q-Pro (V for 105, XV for Ultegra, and XX for Dura Ace) 2005 Klein Rêve (V for 105, X for Veloce (!), and XX for Dura Ace) In 2006, Klein drops the 105 equipped version of the Q-Pro. 2006 Klein Q-Pro (XV for Ultegra, and XX for Dura Ace) 2006 Klein Rêve (V for 105, and XX for Dura Ace)

If you're trying to identify the model year of a specific frame by its color, this table should help. Of course custom paint jobs were always popular too. One of the other scans on this page somewhere defines names like "linear horizon" et al. Look for the colored tubesets.


This is the font used on the earliest Kleins, pre 1992. It's got the block letters, close together, I call it Font 1.

The block font also came in an outline variant - I call it Font 1A. This was used on some early customs, and the 1990 models of Performance, Quantum, and Kirsten (maybe more, I don't know). This is the font used on Kleins from 1992 through 1998. Sometimes called the Klingon font, I call it Font 2. The letters are still close together but now the K and E are really curvy. Also, this is not a decal, but the letters were masked off before the color coat was added so you're seeing the prime coat of white - Klein called this "debossing", sort of the opposite of embossing I guess... anyway a really cool effect. This is the current font used on all Klein bikes starting in 1999. The letters are blocky and angular and spaced farther apart than ever before. Intiguingly, I've named it Font 3.

This is a Team Super - the oldest Klein I could find a photo of. It has the early font but is a little hard to see in this shot, downtube shifters, non-aero brake cables, no internal cable routing at all, cheap Benotto tape(!), steel fork, extended seat tube, quill stem, and looks like a Super Record rear derailleur. The seat post was still thin like on a steel bike, but they hadn't invented the seatpost collar clamp yet and couldn't use a steel bike's clamp because that bends the metal too much for aluminum so that's what the extended tube is for. Pretty much the only thing setting Klein apart in those days was the big tubes that were still novel. The top tube says "BORON REINFORCED", I hadn't heard of that before. Odd selection of seat post and crank, I guess the owner just liked that orange/gold color. I'm estimating this bike was new in 1985 - brake cables under the tape were pretty standard past then and this bike doesn't have them.



Here's another Team Super custom frame. The owner says it cost him $2300 in 1988.


A page from the 1986 Klein Catalogue. $2,000 for a frame back then was a real high end price tag.


This is an early custom.

Now here's something a little unusal, the Klein Performance was a touring bike and this one is a beauty - an early example of the interesting paint schemes for which Klein would later become famous. Note the skinny seat post, extended seat tube, L-O-N-G wheel base, bar end shifters, and exposed cable routing. I've heard some people say this is one of the best production touring bikes ever made. Another Klein Performance - this one looks like it actually got used for touring, judging from the high spoke-count, rear rack, and Brooks saddle. Not an interesting color though, and for some reason this is one of the few bike photos of the non-drive side.
Here's a 1992 Klein Performance photo from the catalogue - note that the barcon shifters have been replaced with STI levers. No internal cable routing though. I just can't get over how much space there is behind the seat tube!

A Klein Aeolus, I always thought that was an odd name but I guess Aeolus was a god of the wind or something so that makes sense for a triathlon bike. Unusual componentry on this one, especially the crank and rear derailleur, "cronometro" wheels might be 650c. I think triathletes want aero shaped tubing so this was never a real popular bike. Another Aeolus, not set up for triathlons. What I love about this photo is that the owner painted his wall the "plum crazy" paint scheme found on some Kleins. Both of these Aeoluses have threaded headsets, but this one has a seat tube collar clamp as well. Blog reader Harrel sent me this photo of his Aeolus with internal cables, still in use, still looking good. A Klein Stage. If you zoom in you can see the rear facing dropouts, and how they're way bigger than the micro dropouts we have now. Carbon fork and boutique wheels are modifications from the original. This Stage has been retrofitted with both STI and a carbon fork with threadless headset. Can't tell who made those wheels. This is a Klein Stage, looks like a custom for a short rider. The STI seems to be a retrofit because it has downtube shifter braze-ons. Steel fork, threaded headset, full sized seatpost and collar clamp, and a good view of the funky, chunky, cantilevered dropout.




A 1992 Klein Kirsten photo from the catalogue. Note that the downtube shifters are on the side because there's not enough room to put them on the top of the downtube.

This is a Stage Comp with steel fork, beefy quill stem (Profile?), threaded headset, STI, seat post collar clamp, nice fat seat post, and brake cable routed under the top tube. No boutique wheels and I can't tell about the dropouts. Looks like the Klingon font, about 1992. A nice Klein Quantum from the downtube shifter and extended seat tube days... 1989 maybe? An early production model for sure - big fat aluminum tubes were starting to look less odd by this time, and the popularity of skinny steel tubes was waning.
A Quantum frame shows some of the details better... that's GOTTA be a steel fork.

Blog reader Jim sent me this photo of his 1991 Quantum.

A close up of those chunky dropouts facing the wrong way.


A special paint job on this Klein Quantum II that's probably a 1995 model - the precurser to the Quantum Race, . This paint scheme is called "Night Storm" and is still available as a custom option. I was surprised they'd been doing this one for so long. We see the appearance of the micro dropouts and internal cable runs, but we still have a threaded headset and a seat tube extension. I think that's a pressed in bottom bracket as well - if you have one of those and want to replace it, Phil Wood has the answer. Also interesting that the KLEIN logo appears on the side of the seat tube - I've never seen that on any other frame, but this was a custom paint job so maybe it's the only one like it. I'm not sure if that's the stock fork or not and I have no idea what's up with those wheels.


Here's a Quantum II with a standard paint job.






The very first Quantum Pro
Klein Quantum Race. This one has a different stem - the owner probably used a shim because I'm sure this was during the proprietary steerer size days. Looks like it's still a steel fork too, can that be right? This is probably from 1997 or so.

Couple shots of an unpainted Quantum Pro revealing the weld quality.

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1998 - This is my Quantum Pro - the photo is from the eBay ad. I got it from a guy in San Anselmo; it was four years old but had never been built up and was in perfect condition (still is pretty much).



Below, a few other bikes with my same 1998 Quantum Pro frame.

The MC2 Stem had a collet style clamp (no pinch bolts), and an internal brake cable run.


This 1995 Quantum Pro has an MC2 Stem and the 20th Anniversary custom paint job with Gary's signature - what a beauty!

I'm pretty sure this Quantum Pro is a 1999 model.

These two orange Quantum Pro's are year 2000 models - MC3 stems with external stem clamp bolts were standard issue that year.



Klein provided bikes to the US Postal Service master team with this wild paint job. I'm guessing 2001 because it has the newer font and 2002 was the Q-Pro Carbon but this is a Quantum Pro.
The Team Gerolsteiner Q-Pro Carbon, used in the 2002 pro season. HERE is a review of the frame on cyclingnews.com. The paint job is called "BUBBLES" and you can still get that as a custom option - look HERE.

This is a 2003 Q-Pro XX frame with the "Waves" paint option. This frame actually belongs to the guy who designed the Waves paint scheme for a contest Klein had and he got runner up; he's sort of an intenet pen pal of mine and a scenery designer for theatrical plays. Klein adopted the theme as an option and gave him this frame for free! I entered that contest too but my design was pretty boring compared to this. The winner got a whole DA-10 built-up bike. In 2004, Klein supplied these Q-Pro XX bikes to Jittery Joe's domestic team. The shifters were still Dura Ace 9-speed because SRAM was the cassette supplier and they didn't make 10-speed cassettes yet. Several other smaller name component sponsors as well. Here's the Cycling News tech review LINK.



Cesar Grajales on his "Lance Dropper".
This is a Quantum TT, only offered in the 2002 model year. It was an interesting attempt at appealing to folks who want something between a fast hybrid and a more comfortable road bike. A bunch of other companies made these "flat bar road bikes" around the same time but they never really caught on; maybe the market niche is too small. Besides, it's pretty easy to build up your own road bike with MTB bars and levers if that's what you're after anyway. Nice bike with a triple crank (I guess that's mandatory for MTB shifters) internal cabling and all the other features on the Quantum and Quantum Race. Bontrager wheels have been standard since 2002 models. I've never seen one of these TT's in person. Three Auras - the XV on top, the X and the V on bottom. All the same except for componentry. Klein used to do a lot of compact road frames in their custom days so they knew how to get the geometry right. Q-Pro V (top), XV (middle) and XX (bottom). Nice frames, nicely equipped, a few more concessions to fashion (carbon stays) and standards (headsets). Still special bikes that you can be proud to own, still a little hard to find, still pretty expensive. Two Reves from the Klein web page. I first saw these at the San Francisco Grand Prix where Klein had a booth. They had a Reve set up on a trainer with bumpy bits on the roller and another bike without any shock absorber next to it on another trainer with bumpy roller so you could ride both bikes over the bumps and see the difference. I think this was the beginning of the gimmicky stuff Klein started to come out with but I don't know, maybe it does feel better to some people. The forks on Reves are not as beefy and cool looking as the AEROS forks either. Mike J at Chain Reaction did a review of the Reve on his website and he's a better judge of such things than I so check it out HERE. Mike reports that Klein distribution in the USA came to an end in 2007. Apparently Klein in Japan is a huge deal but domestic demand is low. I don't know if Trek killed Klein with its corporate facelessness or if they kept it on life support for the last few years but I'm sure there will always be people who want the kind of build quality and beauty for which Klein is famous; and I think it sad that those people will have to look elsewhere for it in the future. The new Kleins are all carbon fiber and have some satisfied owners, but they don't really hold much appeal for fans of the classic Klein frames.

76 comments:

Myles said...

Glad to see that there are other Klein Whores roaming the great state of CA! I am finishing my custum build on a 1994 Klein Rascal; my next project is to be a Quantum II, if I can find a size 57 frame. Nice Blog!

D said...

I love your history of these frames.

I just got into cycling and i purchased a Klein Quantum in the Plum Crazy color. It's beautiful. I am having trouble figuring out what year specifically it is though. It does have a triple up front and a "i carbon" front fork and seat tube. It still has the original Vector Rolf wheels with Michelin Axial Pro's. Any idea as to the year it might be?

I already love this bike, but any additional info I can find about it only makes me love it more.

Thanks.

Diablo Scott said...

Hi D

My first guess is your Quantum is a year 2000 model. That agrees with just about everything you described.

Starting in 1999 they changed the way they created their serial numbers and I don't have a key for identifying them but send me a photo and your serial number and I'll add them to my very short database. Use e-mail so I can get back to you - there's a mail-to link at the top of my page.

Anonymous said...

Hey Scott:

Firstly, a very cool resource - thanks. I had a circa 1989 or 1990 Black Klein Quantum with Ultegra that I deeply regret selling. I just came across a purple KQ frame (similar year I'm guessing) selling for $250. I also found a new old stock frame from 1995 that a bike shop is trying to sell for $775, although he came down to $600. In your opinion, how much should one pay for an older Klein Quantum frame? Lastly, where did you find the Priorities poster?
Thanks, Bradley

Henry said...

I bought a 58cm 1980 custom Team Super in the summer of 1980. It was built for someone else who stiffed the dealer. I worked in a bike shop near MIT in Cambridge, MA in the spring of 1980 and a guy came in to show off his new Klein. I had worked in a bike shop in Buffalo, NY the previous summer where the owner had one so I knew something about them, which impressed this guy enough to let me take it out for a quick spin. It turned out to be more than a "quick spin" as I went ROARING up Mass Ave about a mile and a quarter to a shop called Bicycle Exchange near Harvard Square so I could show it to my cousin, who worked there. I fell in love with it immediately and knew that I would find a way to buy one. I guess the guy who owned it was fit to be tied by the time I got back with it, but my glowing praise quickly soothed his frayed nerves.

When I found out that a little bike shop (I have long since forgotten the name) across Comm Ave from Boston University near the BU Bridge had a Klein frameset for sale, I had to go take a look. I guess business wasn't so great for him as he was willing to let it go for about half off its retail price. All my Campy Super Record and Dura-Ace gear came off the Holdsworth that day and the rest is history. I spent many sleepless nights machining bits off of its components and installing aluminum and titanium parts to save that last gram of weight. I even swapped out the Super Record rear changer for a Huret Jubilee. I only got it down to about 17½ lbs with 260 gram Super Champ Medaille D'Or rims (laced radial in front and three-cross/radial in back) and Clement Criterium Seta Extra silks, but I had tons of fun doing it.

It was the last frame I ever bought and now it is basically a museum piece.

One of these days I'll haul it out, wipe the dust off of it and shoot some pics for posterity.

Henry

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the resource. I have a 1995 59" Black Klein Quantum II, 20th Anniversary Signature Model. I decided to get a carbon fork. Had to go with the Easton EC90 with 1" steerer tube as the EC70 only comes in 1-1/8". Cheers

Diablo Scott said...

Wow, I wish you guys would e-mail me so I could respond and ask for photos!

The 1995 Quantum II would have had a threaded headset and quill stem so that should have been a pretty easy swapout of your steel fork. How's it ride? I see that's a 43mm rake and it appears to have an aero/integrated crown... how's it look too?

Does the "Signature Model" have Gary's signature on it?

Send photos. Click on my profile for my e-mail address.

Anonymous said...

Great resource! I appreciate the effort that went into this and just wanted to thank you for putting it up.

Anonymous said...

Hey Scott,

I just got a klein stage and I have some questions. for some reason I can't click on the thing that says email you.

I was wondering if you could drop me an email at thegoaliegal@hotmail.com so that I could send you my questions?

thanks so much,
great work on the history.
sig

W. Lee said...

Wow fabulous. and very informative! thank you for putting such time into creating this blog.

J said...

Hi Scott
great resource! Love the page! As discussed via email, sometime next year my '93 NOS teal Quantum should be ready and I will be emailing you some pics for the blog. I really could not make a decision what component colours to use as teal is a difficult colour. I considered black, red, silver, gold but in the end decided to follow Klein's 'colour craziness' and so it will become a 'rasta' bike...
Gold ano hubs, jockey wheels and headset, red ano stem, seatpost, brakes, rims and skewers, black ano handlebars, spokes and cranks....

ReaknHavok said...

Nice site... I really enjoyed the information.

In 1996 I was working as a BBI certified wrench at a local bike shop in Atlanta and the head mechanic sold me on the idea of getting a Klein mountain bike frame. I bought a Pulse II frameset and built it out with XT components, and while I've beaten the piss out of it, it still looks like new. Sure I've upgraded a few things, but the frame is a well engineered tank with enduring looks.

Interestingly, my Pulse II frame order somehow got fouled (seem to recall they ordered the wrong size) and resulted in a delay in receipt of delivery. The Klein rep felt poorly of it and offered me an irresistible deal on a Quantum II road frame (also '96). While I wasn't really in the market for another road bike (I had 4 others at the time), it was a deal I couldn't decline. So I bought it and built it out with Campy Chorus components. To date, it has logged only 3 rides! Not because I don't like it, but because it is a piece of art that I cherish. I have other road bikes to weather the abuses of regular riding.

I consider myself fortunate to own 2 Klein classics. And while they don’t share the integrated headset configuration that set Klein apart in some respects, I love them just the same. I continue to abuse my Pulse II… and it still looks like new.

It's nice to see there are other Klein advocates out there.

- ReaknHavok

Bergie said...

Hello Diablo Scott. Seen you in the road cycling forums too.
I too, am a Klein afficiando. They are timeless machines! My first was a blue to green fade Quantum II circa 1996. That served me for 12 years and counting as my primary ride for 9 years and now is the back up and rain bike. My second Klein is my 2005 Q-Pro XV. It's the main ride these days and is the beautiful Vulcan Ember color. I still get nice comments reagrding their paint to this day. I'd buy another, but the wife would frown upon adding another bike to the garage!

Last year, I saw a long (seemed like 50 pages) Klein technical article explaining every feature Klein has done in great detail. I don't know if you have that somewhere in your info and I may still have it if you want it?

Also, being a fellow Mt. Diablo rider, I can relate to this great mountain. Back in the day (when 35 and climbing it twice weekly) I could go OK, although never broke the 1 hour barrier (best was 1:07) and these days, my Klien Q-Pro XV has a triple, so it gets my old and fat bod up to the junction slowly once every week or two. Descending is my strong point these days!! Yesterday, I saw a Garmin rider, follwed by a Garmin team car, hauling tail up South Gate. See or hear anything about it? Looked like he was gonna set a record up it! Hope to talk to you later...
Bill

Diablo Scott said...

Thanks Bill,

I have some old Klein Tech Manuals in PDF form that are about 30 pages but it doesn't sound like what you mention. I would like to have it - I don't really have any way to send people large files though with my e-mail limitations but maybe someday I'll have a file download section on my own webpage... so yeah, if it's not too much trouble and not too big... e-mail it to me. Addy's in my profile.

I'll keep my eyes open for an old guy on a Q-Pro XV ;-)

No word on a Team Garmin guy on the Mountain... I'll ask around.

J said...

Hey Scott,

I was in the 'hood in Oct but due to a nasty bike crash in Aug prohibited from riding (plate in shoulder) otherwise I would have joined you an a Diablo ascent.
The Quantum is slowly getting bits added on to it, and I have again changed my mind on the colour scheme, opting for all red ano components-it just worked better. Once there is something more substantial to take a pic of it will be on your way.
J

Aussy Ockum said...

Great site. I would love to see fellow bloggers submit their personal Klein photos to compile into a gallery. I haven't heard any news regarding the rumor of Klein's return in 09...probably best for my wallet, though.

Keep up the good work!

OLD-METAL said...

Hi scott,

that's some great reading.
I was looking for some info and pictures of the 1990 dolomite Attitude.
I have some pictures of the bike on my own blog: www.old-metal.blogspot.com

Thanks

Bas

Diablo Scott said...

Sorry Bas, I only know about Klein *road* bikes. The world is waiting for the Klein MTB fan page though so I nominate YOU.

J said...

On the subject of various Klein fanpages - it would also be handy to have a more interactive exchange of information - forum style. I just got the idea because I was stumped when I tried to fit a Mavic 631 SSC square crankset to my '93 Quantum, only to find that it didn't fit i.e. it seems to be a Campagnolo axle. I know Mavic's fit was slightly different but that BB sure isn't ISO.

Errol said...

Great read, its good to see others as passionate about old Kleins as I am. I have a Quantum of about 1992 vintage, it was sitting at my local bike shop a few years ago doing nothing so I made an offer and fulfilled a desire for a Klein that went back to my teens. I'll have a look at my serial and send a photo.

The Grumpy Hacker said...

I'm not familiar with Campagnolo equipment...what do you mean by the "!" where you wrote:

2005 Klein Rêve (V for 105, X for Veloce (!), and XX for Dura Ace)

Is Veloce good or bad?

Errol said...

Here's a link to the Klein catalogues from 1989 to 1997 ... all the Klein eye candy you could ever want:

http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/html/klein.html

kir said...

your missing a pearl yellow klein quantum pro from the 97 year :)

http://velospace.org/node/23969

there is a crap pic of one (mine lol)

kir said...

Also, the Quantum Race for quite some time (including the possible 97 you have there) have a ether 1" or 1 1/8 steerer instead of the oversized pressed in bearings of the pro model, after trek started doing their thing (and i think after zr9000 frames) it switched to denominate nothing more than part designation.

heres a link to alot of the old catalogues if you dont have them already as well

http://www.mtb-kataloge.de/html/klein.html

kir said...

here is the picture of the 97 Quantum pro's bottom bracket/ serial#

sorry but its the best i could do on my phone, if its not good enough message me through my email or velospace and i can try and borrow my parents digital camera and try again

thanks again for this amazing archive of info!! I can say with 100% certainty that this is the best place for klein road bike info on the web. Especially since trek/klein have removed just about everything that they once provided.

max

Anonymous said...

Thanks for all of the Klein information! I bought my first road bike a 2000 Quantum Pro, full Dura Ace components, with Rolf Vector Pro wheels in excellent condition. It is 59cm and the Sedona Orange color scheme. Since I got it in September, I have put over a 1000 miles on it and I love it! Many people I see while riding tell me how beautiful a bike it is... I feel very fortunate to have it... particularly for the price I paid!
I got it for only $500.00! I believe I got a heck of a deal for a great bike!

Paul D. said...

Hey Scott great stuff!! Just wondering if there is somewhere that I can get info as to what year a bike is based on the serial # (CH0014703) thanks,
Paul
prdiaz@comcast.net

ps. I am up in Sonoma County and try and ride Diablo as much as I can get down there, love that hill!

Diablo Scott said...

Hi Paul - I tried to e-mail you but I got a "permanent fail to deliver" message.

My e-mail is in my profile.

Scott

Mo said...

Pretty sure my Klein Quantum Race is a 1997 or 1998 (S/N: 55 102 98 037P, "Klingon" font, Caribbean green to purple fade). I bought it from a guy around 2000, and can't remember the details of the transaction anymore. I think it's a 53 cm, but I'd like to confirm. What is the correct way to determine the size of a Klein Quantum from the late 1990's? Do I measure from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the top tube? This measures very close to 53 cm on my bike.

Also, I'm curious how to change the handlebar stem, because although I love this bike in many ways, the reach to the handlebars is too much for me. The links on your site regarding how to change the stem are unfortunately no longer valid. My stem is a one-piece, welded "L-shape". It looks like highly polished aluminum. I'll try to get a set of calipers to measure the diameter soon, but it looks pretty small. The nut that holds the stem in place at the top of the steer tube says "Tange" and "Vantage" on it.

Anonymous said...

@ Reve description: You "... think this was the beginning of the gimmicky stuff Klein started to come out with ...".

I recently got one of the last Reve's for my wife. After assembling it with some (meanwhile cheap) triple Campy Record components plus race saddle, I checked the derailleur adjustments.

First thought when going over some bumps on the road: I forgot to put sufficient air into the tires - before I remembered the integrated shock absorber (the air pressure was 9 bar, and the 200 gr saddle was harder than I was used to).

Thus, the absorber isn't a gimmick! It is a typical and consequent KLEIN innovation making biking more efficient. While other manufactures are just trying to safe weight (e. g. by using carbon = plastic frames + light uncomfortable wheels), Gary Klein makes riding less fatigue by avoiding shock/vibration stress to the riders body (in particular the back).

The only alternative to achieve this without adding weight (the absorber does not weight much more than the equivalent piece of alu) is to put only 2-3 bars into a 23 mm tire instead of 9.

Klein chose BASF, a worldwide leading company, as the supplier of these absorbers. BASF is also supplier for the automotive industry: the same material is used under another brand name for shock absorbers assembled betweeen the car suspension and the car chassis.

Going back from the Reve (even only after some miles) to a normal carbon/alu bike is like from a modern 300 hp-Mercedes to a Porsche of the 80's. Nice to drive the Porsche for some miles but happy to have the Mercedes (or whatever fast, comforable car else) for your long distance drives. Except, you drive on a recently paved highway.

Some reviewers (in Germany) said, the fork of the Reve is too heavy. But, this is not true. It is designed for the stability you need when use the application range the bike has (bad, even unpaved roads/also with luggage).

It is a pity that Klein does no more exist and that this innovation cannot be developed further (e. g. by adding a small absorber ring before assembling the fork to the frame).

Klaus - Germany

1991 Klein Quantum (purple) - biking on small Alpine and italian roads.

Anonymous said...

I have a Klein Quantum II. I love the bike so have upgraded to a threadless headset and fork. This has made a huge difference for me as I have far more control over the bike. I am considering upgrading my componentry as well to SRAM Force.

mr.jamiewilson@gmail.com

Olin said...

I have a Klein Stage Comp that I bought in the mid to late 90's. It was the first realy high quality bike tha I purchased. Started out with a Dawes as kid in the 70's and then in the mid 80's bought a Bridgestone that was a 450 series I believe. Yor web site is the best I've found for information on the Klein bikes. I am currently having mine overhauled. I still ride it. It's abeautiful bike in mint condition. Olin - Texas

John Rider said...

great entry! it's a shame the era of Klein is finished. my friends used to tease me about the 'flexible aluminum' frame on my quantum II.

unfortunately, i just wrecked it last week and broke the original forks. hope to get it back next week with some new hardware. i'll send before and after pics if you are interested, I think i have a fairly unusual setup.

Anonymous said...

Great entry! I referred some geometry information from here. Thanks a lot.

FYI, Trek in Japan is not selling Klein in 2010. (Some stock may be available, but no more new models.) So it seems completely over in 2009 though I still think it's already ended around 1996-1998.

Only few eccentric company like Storck possibly compete.

Scott Hays said...

I have really enjoyed your blog and keep up the good work! I found a 2002 Quantum Race with a bent handlebar and bent front wheel at AS-Is Liquidators for $700. It has a deep blue paint job that has held up very well and keeps getting compliments. I am working on a 2001 Quantum Race frame with a silver cloud finish and it will have all 105 and ultegra parts. I use Mavic 32-spoke wheels 'cause I'm on the heavy side and I absolutely love riding the Klein!

Diablo Scott said...

Thanks for writing Scott - and everyone else. Love the stories.

Pirak said...

thank you very much for this, very informative. btw, do you have any info about quantum Z model? i got one from market with shimano 600 but no idea about the histoey.

best best,

pirak

Anonymous said...

Regarding the demise of the Klein brand, the story I heard is that it was all quite amicable. Gary didn't want to do it anymore and Trek didn't see any point to keeping it going.

DucPilot said...

Just found a place in CA. Leucadia Cyclery. They still has some Kleins AVAILABLE.
I'm not sure how many are left now, as of April 7, 2011, but Fred still has some bikes and frames.

Good Luck! Maybe they'll have what you want!

Anonymous said...

Cool, I'm buying a Klein Quantum II second hand tomorrow, was doing some research to see what was getting into and didn't realise how rich the history of these bikes are.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the site. I can help I.D. the 2000-2001 Quantums because I own a 2000 Quantum Race and read over everything when I was buying.

Unless you paid for a custom job, the 2000 Quantum Race was "Silver Cloud" (gorgeous white and sliver) and the Quantum Pro "Plum Crazy" (iridescent purple that changed colors). The biggest differences between the two were Ultegra on the Quantum Race with a icon carbon fork, the Quantum Pro got Dura-Ace with an Aeros fork. This is in the post-sale Trek era, and both came sprinkled with cheaper Bontrager parts and wheels.

If you have a Quantum Pro in Silver Cloud, then you have the 2001 model. Klein moved the Silver Cloud paint from the "Race" to the "Pro" model for 2001.

The Grumpy Hacker said...

Ever heard of a Klein 'Navigator'? http://cgi.ebay.com/220839803216

Anonymous said...

Hi, based on what I've managed to find, including here, I think I have (one of?) the earliest Klein frame(s) out there... Just visit retrobike.co.uk then type "Quite very early Klein frame" and enjoy! Yes, original owner!

Graeme said...

Hi, I have a 2006 Klein Q Pro XX and was wondering should it have a small indentation and then a very lightly flattened area on the downtube near where the FD clamp would sit? The flattened are extended down towards the bottom bracket. any jhelp would be appreciated.

Diablo Scott said...

@Graeme - I haven't seen that, but if you're thinking it might be damaged it doesn't sound very likely. Damage would probably be a dent or a crease. Flattened spots sound more like it was manufactured that way for whatever reason - mounting the derailleur, mating up with the BB, whatever. Send me a photo!

Steve said...

Hi,
I have a Quantum frame that's a kind of purple/blue/copper (Purple Haze?). I don't know the year. I t might be a 2000. On the BB there are a few #'s. On the drive side there's T BI-1342, on the none-drive side this: 55I 0300 is above this: WTUI28164R. Any idea which is the serial#, and what if any info is contained in these #'s? Can you tell the year?

Thanks for your time.

Steve

Steve said...

BTW,

In regards to my above post, the frame looks almost, if not identical to that flat-bar road bike the Quantum TT on your blog.

Anonymous said...

I,ve bought a brand new Klein Quantum pro [wthout a fork]
For only 150 euro,s.
I,v put a cinelli track fork in it because it had the same rake [35 mm] and drilled a conversionkit for it.

When it is finished
I will post some foto's

Chris from the Netherlands

Diablo Scott said...

Dankjewel Chris. Aangenaam.

Anonymous said...

Hello Scott, great site! I just lucked into a Klein Quantum and was wanting to know a bit more about it. According to the style of letering it looks to be pre 1992 but here's the serial number: 3QE000364 prececed by a circled K It's equipped with a complete Shimano 105(1055)groupset. Anything you can come up with would be appreciated:)

Robert

Diablo Scott said...

Robert - you need to e-mail me if you want a response, and a photo or at least the color of your Quantum would help, but my best guess is yes... 1986 - 1991. Serial numbers in that era aren't a lot of help. Check out the "I love my klein" facebook page, maybe someone there will recognize it.

Anonymous said...

Scott, I have 2 Klein's. One is a black (63cm/I think) Quantum I think I bought in late 1989. It has the solid "KLEIN" name on it. It has Shimano gears, etc. that say "600." I will have to check for the serial #. I paid, including shoes, pedals, computer, etc. around $2,000-$2400. I also have a red Klein that I think is a Kirsten, but it has no name on it other than Klein. It is small, and my wife rides it. I bought it in early 1990, but it had been in the shop a long time (paid just $750). I can take a photo of mine tonight, but my wife's is in the shop getting a tune up. I assume both bikes are 1989 models, but I don't know. Any help identifying the bikes would be appreciated. I bought them both at Loco Motion in Winter Park, Florida. Thanks, John Smith (jsmith@seippflick.com)

Max Speedwell said...

I read a 1982 Bicycling! article by Bev Bogle, and another by Gary Klein. They sparked my ambition to finally build a custom bike. I designed the frame, and Perley's welding (a true artist) did thee welding. Gary did the normalizing. Still have that bike and it is a true piece of art. Aside from the geometry it is hauntingly similar to a Team Superlight Road.

Max Speedwell said...

If you want a photo I'm at
maxspeedwell@gmail.com

Stuart Gordon said...

Hi Scott, I'm in the process of building up an Aura XV with mostly campag parts, and mostly in silver, as it suits the iridescent Blue/Purple tones and silver (base metal) logo. I'm having trouble with the headset specs as they seem a bit unusual. The Klein spec sheet says Cane Creek Internal 25.4/34.0/30.0, 8mm stack. Any advice on what would fit would be well received. The frame's being built up by Melbourne's finest - Dan at Shifter Bikes. The frame's already been posted on Shifters Instagram site due to the amazing paint job!
Thanks, Stuart

Diablo Scott said...

@Stuart Gordon:

Sorry I have no idea. I'll bet the folks at Cane Creek would be able to tell you though - send them an e-mail.

feetdry said...

I am the proud owner of 4 road Kleins, all font 1 bikes. The one I purchased recently on Ebay is a Quantum, all Dura Ace with the old 6 speed downtube SIS shifters that has the cable disappear in the down tube and the rear derailier cable is inserted into the cable stay. I've never seen another Klein road bike like it.

Diablo Scott said...

@feetdry: Check out the 1985 Team Super on my Photos and SN page:

https://picasaweb.google.com/108112939684385339347/KleinRoadBikeSerialNumbers?noredirect=1#5593994115598599490

4 or 5 shots there showing the unusual cable routing.

feetdry said...

Yes, I didn't proof my comment. I meant to say that the derailier cable is inserted into the CHAIN stay. Your photo #88 of 97 & 92 of 97 and 93 of 97 all look like the routing of my Klein. The brake cable retains the normal routing along the top of the top tube. Also the Quantum is a slanted blue font with white trim.

feetdry said...

Klein people are responding. I need to take pictures and send in s/n of my now 5, font1 Kleins.

Kat said...

Hello-
I have a 55cm stage comp fro the late 90s that is a bit too long for me. Someone recommended to replace the quill with one that has a shorter horizontal extension. Two bike shops turned me away with a "do not carry." (that in bike-crazy Portland!)

Any suggestions?

Diablo Scott said...

Far as I know a quill is a quill, just make sure you get the right clamp diameter for your bars. Seriously, any decent bike shop should at least be able to help you out, even if they don't have one in stock. You could also do a threadless conversion post.

Here - pick one.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=quill+stem

Terry Purdy said...

I just got my purple 1988 Quantum out of the shop. All the Shimano 600 has be removed and replaced with a new Dura Ace external DI2 groupo. In addition, it's sporting Dura Ace C24 wheels. Oh, not to mention the new Phil Wood BB to allow for the new Dura Ace axel. Had to mill 3mm off the inside of each drop out to make room for the 11 speed cassette.

Just took her for a spin yesterday and it's a sweet Klein. Wish Gary could see her.

Wiley Radomski said...

Trying to figure out a year on the Klein Quantum I stumbled across, S/N: KQU1E1 on the bottom of the left seat stay. It's a glossy jet black and since it was relatively light/super stiff I bought a slammed quill stem and was looking to throw on full ultegra 6800 to replace the old dura ace 7700 drivetrain and turn it into a crit bike... Had thought it was early 2000's but doesn't resemble the pictures... Any insight would be awesome!

Diablo Scott said...

Wiley - the last of those "under the seat stay" serial numbers was either 1991 or 1992. 1990 Quantum definitely came in a glossy black. Lots of those early 90's Kleins were sold as bare frames so you might've had any group set on it originally, including Campy.
https://plus.google.com/photos/108112939684385339347/albums/5254851376969004353/5593993447696743698?banner=pwa&pid=5593993447696743698&oid=108112939684385339347

john roberts said...

Scott, I rode a blue Klein Quantum in the 1988 RAGBRAI, maybe the one you saw. A few people thought it was a beautiful bike and I told them it was a great ride. Had a motorcycle accident the next year and have not rode it much since then. My son-in-law was the last to race it in a tri.

Diablo Scott said...

Great story John, although I remember talking to the owner ... oh let's just say it WAS you... makes for an even better story and who's going to say otherwise?

Wiley Radomski said...

1990? Ha I'm the same age as my frame. Knee issues/crashes this year, hopefully will pull a few wins on it in it's 25th year!

Side note I did go through and throw ultegra 6800 on it, along with a flo 30 wheelset it has been just about the perfect crit bike. Some extreme tire rub on one of the seat stays is causing me a little worry so it may need to be retired next year, but it is a beauty and will be hung on the wall when she's no longer rideable.

ekapris7880 said...

Hi all,


I have purchased a Klein quantum pro frame (supposely after Klein was puchased by Trek but before moving the production). The color is purple and it has the carbon aero fork.

The SN is 8(or 9)X11970599(or 8)... Any idea which years model is it.

And does it worth to try to restore with the original parts.

Best regards
Evangelos from Denmark

Diablo Scott said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Diablo Scott said...

Evangelos! Sounds like a 1999 from the serial number, but purple wasn't the stock color that year so probably a custom order. Google for photos of 99 Quantum Pro and see what you think.

Original parts not so important, modern Dura Ace would go well on it.

Vangelis said...

Thank Diablo,

Did I say purple :) sorry I meant green ... I am planning to put SRAM red on (I Like Sram) - if I modernized it. But it is a fantastic frame. To the point that I am considering getting another one.

May I ask how you determined the year from the SN.

Best regards
Evangelos

Diablo Scott said...

>May I ask how you determined the year from the SN.

I haven't figured out all the serial number schemes, but I sort of know when they changed from one scheme to another scheme.

I have other serial numbers in my files for people who know their bike's model year.

The 1998 Quantum Pro's (like mine) have serial numbers like this:
55X0198037P The 55 is the size, and the 98 is the year.

The 1999 Quantum Pro's have serial numbers like this:
7X019TUI09022R I don't know what any of those figures mean.



ekapris7880 said...

Hi again,

You are a great source of information. Looking the klein catalogure from 99 (http://www.vintage-trek.com/Trek-Fisher-Klein-Lemond/1999klein.pdf) I can see a MTB with a similar green metalic color. The pic is of a low resolution and I can't see if it also has the purple nuances.

But thanks alot I knoe now it from the pre TREK factory.

I have found some parts for replacing the cable routing and also some stem/headset part.

Thanks alot for the help.

If you want I can email you pics of the frame + SN for your archives.

Best regards
Evangelos

Diablo Scott said...

Yeah thanks.
Send them to diabloscott@ymail.com
See this page for inspiration.

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipM4pNYAZr9WMCIo6l2erhZ0aPv0WE8JjQIcnS8

Also, did you see the photo I took of the Copenhagen train station?
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5269/171/1600/Copenhagen-Train-Station-2000.jpg

Falko said...

Hey! Cheers from Germany!

Your website showed the only Mid `90 Quantum Pro in Caribbean Linear Fade, I could find! I just bought one from California and am happy to have it sent over to Germany.

Very informative site. I`ll put you in my bookmarks!

Currently, I own:

* 1994 KLEIN Quantum Pro, MC2 (Coral Reef, 57 cm)
* 1995 KLEIN Quantum Pro, MC2.1 (Coral Reef, 61 cm)
* 1995 KLEIN Quantum Pro, MC2 (Caribbean linear fade 61 cm)
* 1995 KLEIN Quantum Race (Caribbean Linear Fade, 57 cm)

Cheers

Falko